Mitzvah, Kosher, Heaven, & Hell: Part 2

[FYI...I edited this a little today out of respect for the folks I was speaking with 5/21/07. I'm afraid I was cynical in my original post. I'm sorry.]

My conversation with the rabbi…

The couple I was speaking with earlier (on 5/16/07) left and I walked into the rabbi’s back room and said, “I think that couple I was talking with out there was explaining things to me wrong.” He said, “Well, what did they tell you?” So I proceeded to tell him how they said that basically when we sin against God there are no repercussions, “He’s just bummed a little.” I asked him if that’s correct in his view.

At first he started to discuss how if we break kosher or mitzvah (commands) then we are sinning against God. I was assuming this meant what Scripture teaches about the fact that since God is an eternal God a sin against His holiness would mean that it is an eternal sin that merits eternal punishment…but that’s not what he meant.

I said, “Then when we sin against God and break His commandments then we merit eternal punishment in hell, right?” He said, “No!” So I asked if Judaism believes in a heaven and a hell. He said, “Not in the same way that you do.”

So I asked in what way does Judaism believe in heaven and hell? What he described was interesting to say the least. He didn’t describe either in regard to places that one goes to either be with or without YHWH. I’ll try to explain what he described.

Heaven…he didn’t have much to say other than that democracy as it exists in the U.S.A. is built on torah (laws of God). Seems like it’s a concept that by following the torah we can achieve a God pleasing society?? I asked about the afterlife and he didn’t have much to say at all. This was difficult for me to understand! From what I understood the rabbinical worldview believes in an almost post-millenial view of the kingdom of God (only without Jesus)…that God’s kingdom is being built on earth now through us. I haven't had the opportunity to ask how they believe the mosiach (messiah) will come...but hopefully I will. I pray I can share the gospel clearly, somehow.

Hell…this was interesting. He went back to the parent analogy that the couple I was speaking with early alluded to. He said that God loves and is merciful…why would he create children and then send them to a place like Christians envision hell to be. I said, “Well, we believe that when we sin against God’s holiness and justice it merits eternal punishment…that’s not what you believe?” He said that God’s not like an angry parent handing out punishment for something His children couldn’t control. (It seems that he considers all humanity to be children of God. I thought Jews would not consider all humanity as children of God…only Jews as chosen children of God maybe this is just my misunderstanding.). He described that God isn’t just an angry being handing out condemnation eternally. He drew another analogy to nakedness. He said that to a Jew being seen in your true essence of nakedness is the ultimate shame. I started to relate that to Adam and Eve’s response to God when they were ashamed of their nakedness (Gen 3:7, 10-11) and Noah (Gen 9:22-23), but he didn’t have much to say about this. He proceeded to tell me that in Jewish culture that if he was to see me naked in the shower that is the ultimate shame and ignominy that could happen and we very well may never speak to each other for the rest of our lives. I was trying to understand what this had to do with hell…so I said, “So if you break the mitzvah (commands) and torah (laws) of God then you will suffer in hell eternally.” He said, “No!” I asked with him to explain clearly what they believe. So he said that when we don’t follow God’s commands it is sin. These sins get in the way of us being able to please God, and be happy ourselves. As we miss these “opportunities” to experience God in His law they pile up like garbage in the essence of who we are…he said it’s like, “being filled up our clouded with sin.” The punishment for sin is basically the consequences of not being able to please God and experience punishment on earth for sin. He talked about the soul as being free from the sinful body by following God’s laws…sounds similar Gnosticism to me. Like murder (another analogy)…he started to tell me about Jeffrey Dahmer and how his punishment or hell was the terrible things in life that he experienced and the punishment that he experienced in jail and the death sentence. He told me that he believed that the Christian view of hell is why people are leaving the Christian churches. He said, “I can’t tell you the countless number of women that come into my deli afraid of God…and His wrath and punishment.” I said, “But the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge (Prov 1:7), the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (Prov 9:10).” And he said, “Yeah, but not that kind of fear.” When I read the interactions of the Old Testament between God and humanity it seems that they were pretty AFRAID, TERRIFIED, and SCARED. Just seems wrong to say that…

There was almost no reference to the afterlife in our discussion regarding heaven and hell. It was hard to understand. I don’t know how one can come to these conclusions with an honest measured and rational reading of the Hebrew Scriptures. In the future I will try to understand more by reading the Scriptures instead of talking philosophically like we were.

We’re not meeting next week, but I’ll be sure to post more of our discussions in the future. Interesting stuff. If you have the opportunity please pray for these folks. Please pray that they might be receptive to the gospel.

Mitzvah, Kosher, Heaven, & Hell

I had a fascinating conversation with a couple before I met with the local rabbi last night.

We were talking at the kosher deli and a woman came over to get some chocolates. She was pretty upset because they were out of non-dairy chocolates. The couple I was discoursing with was explaining to me that they have to wait six hours before and after eating meat to have dairy products.

I have known a lot of Jews that don’t follow this mitzvah (command) so I started asking a lot of questions, because I honestly am trying to understand what their perspective is and where they are coming from.

I asked, “What happens if you don’t follow the mitzvah and you break kosher?” They said really nothing happens. They said it was a command from God and if you follow it then you make God happy, but if you don’t follow it then God in His mercy is just a little bummed. So I said, “I bet you have to be really careful to eat at a restaurant other than here.” And they told me that they can’t in order to keep kosher. I said, “Is it because there is blood in the meat?” (thinking of Gen 9:4; Lev 3:17; 7:26; 17;12, 14; 19:26; Deut 12:16, 23, 27; 15:23; 1 Sa 14:34; Psalm 50:13; Ezek 33:25). They said, “No!” They explained that it’s only because of the manner in which the meat and food is prepared. I always thought kosher meant the food was blessed by a Jewish priest, but from their perspective it’s just the ritual preparation of the meat.

So back to mitzvah (command). I said so if you break the mitzvah of kosher then God is upset with you? They explained that if you break a mitzvah God isn’t upset He’s just bummed a little. So I said, “Then if you break God’s mitzvah He’s not pleased with you.” The woman looked at me and said, “Well, everything is relative…isn’t it?” I was a little confused what she was talking about, but I asked her to explain. She said that it does bring God pleasure when we follow His mitzvah, but if we don’t it’s no big deal, you can just do what you want to do, it’s a pretty diverse approach. Then the gentleman looked at me and said that they don’t look at God the way Christians do. I asked him to explain. He said that I have the wrong perspective on God and that there really is no consequence if we don’t follow God’s mitzvah, but that we just miss opportunities to connect with God when we don’t follow His commands…that we basically do things to make God happy, but if we don’t it’s no big deal. He said that it’s like parents. Parents don’t have children to punish them, rather to love them. When the kids do bad things against the command of their parents the parents are just a little bummed, that’s all.

Then I asked, “Do you believe in heaven and hell?” And they said yes, but not in the way Christians do…

I was really confused…and they left shortly after all of this. If you are a Jew and can clarify some of what I understood, or support what this couple was telling me that would be great. Is this what all Jews believe, or just this couple? If yes, think we disagree on the interpretation of the Hebrew Scripture. Stay tuned, in my next post I’ll write a little about my conversation with the rabbi that flowed out of this conversation.

Psalm 14

Hebrew Numbers 1:24-35

Principal Parts Derived Stems

Principal Parts of Qal Stem Weak Roots

7 Major Hebrew Root Stems

Qal Strong Verb Principal Parts

I'm working on memorizing the next few posts...once again I'm doing this as a reminder that when I start blog that I should be memorizing these.

Gender Neutral??

One more quick comment for the week...

I don't understand the concept of a gender neutral bible (TNIV, NLT, & MSG [if you can call that the Bible]). I'm not saying that these translations are completely useless, but depending on the motivation I'm afraid that the reality of them is un-Christian. God's not an egalitarian God. As I have started to study and learn Hebrew it has made the idea of "gender neutrality" in translation of the Old Testament ridiculous.

You see, adjectives, verbs, and nouns all have a gender assigned to them. I'm sure there are other languages like this. I'm still learning basics...and through the advice of pastor Wayne I'm hoping to study with a Rabbai in town (to learn more of the language). But this idea is coming on strong!

TNIV and other "gender neutral" folks. What are you thinking??

Have a good rest of the week everyone!

Demonstrative and Subject Pronouns

Please pardon these Hebrew posts, but I have found that it helps me to memorize all this stuff if I post it on here...that way when I go to take a break it reminds me that I need to be working on this instead of blogging. And then I don't even have to get off the internet and just work on it online. I have a test Tuesday so the Hebrew posts will slow down a bit after that time.

Psalm 1

Also trying to memorize the following, please pray for me;)

Hebrew Pronominal Suffixes

Well, I'm currently trying to memorize masculine and feminine singular and plural nouns' suffixes. The first one below [masculine] is סוּס "sous", horse, and the second below [feminine] is שִׁפְחָה "shivchetha", maidservant. Enjoy!

Horse [masculine]:


Maidservant [feminine]:

Hebrew Longa, Vita Brevis!

[I'll explain what I mean by this quote in a later post]

Well, I've been trying to memorize the Hebrew alphabet.

It's been great, but it's challenging. I'm bearing in mind that I won't be able to ever read Hebrew like I can English, but I can get pretty good with practice. Right?

So I've memorized the 23 consonants Aleph through Taw. Now I'm working on the final forms of Beth, Mem, Nun, Pe, and Tsade, and the "begadkephat" letters.

The so I'm moving from memorizing sybols and saying what they are in English to pronouncing the sounds of the letters [starting with the letters with the Daghesh Lene].

I'm hoping that soon I'll be able to start phonetically pronouncing a few words and memorizing the meaning of what those words are. It's awesome!

It's pretty amazing to glance at the Hebrew Old Testament and realize, this is the language that God began His revelation in. He is truly unfathomable, yet knowable. Curious!